Kinnear Blasts 'Uneducated' Fans for 'Unrealistic' Expectations
by Zach Woosley on Aug 25, 2011 3:44 PM CDT
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In the second hour of Glenn Davis' Dynamo All-Access from , head coach Dominic Kinnear had some interesting comments to make unprompted by any question or comment from Davis.
I've transcribed his comments from the show:
"I know a lot of fans have been doubting, but they're not fans to me. I'm sick of this. I heard a little bit of your show before I got on, and I'll tell ya I hung up at some of the comments that are made, I can't take it. These guys give it, the fans got a great team and it wasn't just two years Glenn, we were a great team for four years. We had a tough year last year, we're improving as we go and if fans think this is a bad thing, it's MLS then they got to get used to it. So if they're not with it, see you later"
"It's the ebbs and flow of Major League Soccer. Some people aren't educated. We had great success for two years, a great team for four. We lost Stuart Holden and Ricardo Clark and got nothing in return. Those guys are irreplaceable in mind and some fans just don't get it. They just want to watch a Saturday and watch Barcelona and want their MLS team play Barcelona, it's unrealistic and like I said, you just gotta try to educate them as you go and some people just don't want to be educated, they're close minded and that's the way it is."
I can understand the frustration at some of the criticism coming from people this season. As per usual, the vocal minority is typically the loudest but the easiest to ignore. Apparently it's been enough to bother the coach so you can imagine it's bothered the players. If that's the case, then kudos to Dom for voicing his displeasure and letting any heat from the situation come to him, part of a coaches job to shield his players.
I'm not innocent of questioning and doubting some of the moves that Kinnear and his coaching staff have made this season but I'm a blogger tasked with following the team on a week to week basis, I have to pick some thing apart. When we look back at the 2011 season as a whole, I think events are on track to leave us with a much more positive feeling about what went down.
I guess it just comes down to whether you see this as a fired up coach whose team is on a bit of a roll and wants to rally the support or a coach whining about a loud vocal minority with unrealistic expectations for the team that should really be ignored. I tend to lean towards the first line of reasoning and it's not like coaches haven't gotten annoyed by the comments of a few knuckleheads before.
Either way, it's nice from my perspective to see Kinnear so fired up. The team needs that fire and toughness for the final two months of the season and hopefully the playoffs after that.
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personally I like it
I’ve been critical of the team too, but it’s usually an emotional reaction to a tough loss. After a day or two I like to think I can look at things objectively. I get annoyed with the radio call in guy who thinks it’s simple to turn a team around overnight too. I don’t blame Dom one bit for speaking his mind on this….even If I’m occasionally one of the fans he’s talking about.
"If my hips had pockets, I wouldn't wear pants at all." @NotBurtReynolds
sɐxǝʇɯoɹɟʎɹɹɐq sɐ ןooɔ sɐ ʇsoɯןɐ ɯ,ı
We lost Holden and Clark and got nothing in return???
Ummmm, this is spoken as if a giant Terry Gilliamesque Hand plucked them out from the sky. What could we do?
Hmmm. Perhaps reading the tea leaves would be a good start. Have a Plan B in place?
This almost seems pointed toward fans AND the front office.
I am DEFINITELY one of these questioners. Yup, there was a great aging team that was crumbling. Yup, the powers looked the other way. We were in denial. Some of us made noises. One could make opposing arguments- the Emperor’s News Clothes argument that support is blind or the Adelai Stevenson argument that patriotism is courageously speaking up.
No matter which side of the fence you sat on, little happened. Until this season.
We’re on a surge and Dom’s saying told ya so. Yet we are only 3 pts above the last of the Wild Cards NYRB and we have to play 5 of our last 8 on the road, 4 of which are within a 14 day period. During those two weeks, only one game is at home.
Jury’s out.
Yes, we’ve been spoiled.
Yes, it is a rebuilding year.
No, I don’t blame Dom.
And yes, I’ll continue to toot my horn. Just like Dom.
meh
I can kind of see whee Dom is coming from but at the same time he has to remember that he is a coach of a professional sports team….in TEXAS! we love our sports and expect greatness, always. yea we had a good 4 year run and it ended with that off year. its cool it was kind of expected after losing key players all at once. and I too have been guilty of cursing the team when we blow leads and lose, but its mostly just emotions getting the best of me because the following weekend im there cheering them on again. but we are on the mend and rebuilding and so far I like what I’ve seen. Ive never once doubted Dom’s abilities or intentions with the team, whereas many have called for his head which is complete BS. If the FO had listened to these naysayers and angry fans wanting him fired who the hell would be the replacement? thats right NO ONE! Dom is the man for us and I know he’ll do whatever it takes to win.
I also think that those people that need to be “educated” aren’t us fans but the trolls that are all over the chron.com and all the other news websites that are constantly bashing this game. thats one thing i hate. its fine to be frustrated with your team but dont talk crap about a sport you know nothing about.
I was going to say...
that not to sound elitist, but I don’t think most – if not all of us – qualify as “uneducated” fans. I think its perfectly legitimate to have quibbles, complaints, and different points of view about how to address the issues that our team faces. But if anything, that simply shows a level of passion and engagement most teams would kill for.
Look, maybe it is “us” and “them” but I can see Dom’s point: there are those people who see highlights of Barcelona or Manchester United or are just trolls in general and say “why not us”? without knowing its just not that simple. And as Ginge pointed out, its that unfortunate vocal minority that grabs your attention or simply trolls different boards (yessiree, chron.com being the worst offender – in fairness, I tend to troll the trolls. So meta :)).
Maybe part of it is a ploy to fire up the boys after the great run we’ve had and try to keep the fires burning as we head on the road…and to that I say: well played. It’s his job to motivate them and if it helps motivate them then more power to that.
We're not "uneducated"
But I think my position on this blog, if it weren’t obvious already, has been to troll the troll whose trolling the trolls. That’s right I went there. I’ve been very optimistic about the players, coaching squad, and performances.
I think that the undefeated April month shows how good we were without some players (Ching) and with others (Weaver, Bruin, Palmer, Watson). And then we slumped for no reason, and now we’re riding high again. Well, very little has changed and I think a lot of it is mental. That’s right it isn’t Weaver’s fault. It isn’t Watson’s fault. Not Boswell’s or Hainault’s. Yes some plays led to disasters, but not every game and in most cases the good done outweighs the few mistakes.
While I don’t agree entirely with Dom’s statement, maybe he decided to spice it up in order to fire us up as fans. I like that.
Let the record also note that I would rather watch a Dynamo game any day of the week over a Barca game or a Man U game. =D
Castrol Surprise
Dom’s tired of fair weather fans.
We’re definitely not fair weather, many of us weathering heat or rain storms (them were the days!) to watch. We were there, we’re still here, and we’re vocal in our support. Some of us allude to systemic issues OFF the field, which seem to lead to systemic issues on the field.
I wanna touch on some stats that question one of my most consistent raves- the insistence on Cameron at attacking mid- an issue we have debated long and hard.
On the Castrol Index, Cameron is rated 20th, ahead of De Ro, Beckerman, and Davis- ranked 61. Interrrrresting…. (stuffing foot in mouth)
http://www.mlssoccer.com/castrol/index
????
Wow…once again, looking at statistics discombobulates our notions. I mean, in theory Cameron could and should be a good midfielder but most times he appears to be more effort than result. In other words, for all of his running and work we feel there should be those beautiful passes or moves but we typically don’t see them…but maybe we’re looking for something we shouldn’t and focusing on the wrong thing, because clearly he’s producing. Wow. You and Gribbs just blew up my morning
The Castrol ratings are decided by the same crew that write for Family Guy
http://www.lemonzoo.com/funny_videos/15684/South_Park___How_Family_Guy_is_made.html
They often make zero sense
"If my hips had pockets, I wouldn't wear pants at all." @NotBurtReynolds
sɐxǝʇɯoɹɟʎɹɹɐq sɐ ןooɔ sɐ ʇsoɯןɐ ɯ,ı
Great comparison
Always wonder why the Family Guy is considered funny… like it’s in esperanto and I’m missing all the punch lines.
by playtherapy on Aug 26, 2011 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions
All the same
Agreed, I do not want Cameron @ CAM- I do not see demonstration of the Castrol Index rating on the field. Yet Ching’s hard working return opens up spaces and possibilities that weren’t there before. It’s clear that Cameron is desperate to prove his worth up there and much of the Dyanmo’s post season fate will rest on whether he can contribute up top.
If he doesn’t make the grade, then hopefully the Cameron as attacking mid stand in will be finito- dead and buried.
by playtherapy on Aug 26, 2011 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions
Its counter-intuitive
to alot of what I espouse, but despite the statistics I still don’t feel Cameron is a fit there. Maybe its my occasional pig-headedness but I don’t know…I feel his “production” is a by-product of outside factors (Ching/Weaver/Davis movements, balls played in by other or balls that fall to him). Again, I know it seems like I’m out to get him but I’m truly not because I was one of those advocating for him to try out there and be patient with it…I just feel that the modest success we’ve had with him there will translate into a more permanent role. And to be honest, I don’t want modest results, I want better than that.
/Me me me, I I I
//Veruca Salt’d
I don't hate Family Guy
Their whole throw some random stuff up there can be funny. I’ve just never been a fan of the seemingly random castrol ratings. I don’t understand their methodology, and sometimes their ratings make zero sense. I’m a big fan of a lot of the newer advanced statistical analysis. I love that MLS paired up with opta. I buy football outsiders almanac and profootball focus’ premium stats every year for their NFL stuff. The great thing about stats like that is when you look at them and they don’t make sense, you can dig a little deeper and understand why one guy is rated higher/lower than you expected, or get a fresh perspective with your fan bias removed. No one metric can ever tell the whole story, but if you understand how they all work and look at them as part of the big picture they can be quite useful. I’ve never gotten anything but confused by the Castrol ratings. I applaud the effort to find a way to come up with a way to subjectively compare players, I just don’t think they have succeeded.
"If my hips had pockets, I wouldn't wear pants at all." @NotBurtReynolds
sɐxǝʇɯoɹɟʎɹɹɐq sɐ ןooɔ sɐ ʇsoɯןɐ ɯ,ı
You're killing me Smalls
all these statistics and ideas…my head asplodes.
Can I be one of those uneducated fans now? :)
Hopefully
We the uneducated will get to see Camargo in the dying 10 minutes or so. Even better, his entry is a time waster to seal off our first away win.
by playtherapy on Aug 26, 2011 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions
So meta
So you’re the troll behind the troll behind the troll? MIND=BLOWN :)
Yeah, its just been a real mental, emotional and academic exercise trying to make sense of our season. It’s just there are some things you can’t assess like mental fatigue or emotional state, and not just individually but collectively. We have all manner of KPIs available to us that we can rate players with, but sometimes those prove ineffective. Like you said, our rotation has had changes to it out of necessity or experimentation but there hasn’t been a wholesale deviation. So that’s why its odd to see basically the same group of players getting such different results. And also (as you noted), its not that we’ve had a slew of bone-headed plays, its just little mistakes that have lead to wider impacts and for the most part, that’s been the story of the season. I’m just really, really hoping we have finally stabilized and can use our recent form (and perhaps this new “motivation”) to make a final push to the end.
PS – I only watch Barca for competitions and almost never watch ManU because, well, ABU. Sorry.
if dom ever tires of houston
there is an entire fanbase in san jose that would love to have him
Win or lose, we'll always be there for you.
by johnjahafanclub on Aug 26, 2011 10:50 AM CDT reply actions
Dom's remarks
One factor in the Dynamo"s on-field performance are the expansion cycles MSL has gone through.For the first two cycles, I watched as the league forced Houston to give up some of its most talented players in order to stock expansion treams. It will take years for the team to recruit its way back to the top. And let’s remember that more expansion is in the planning stages. Houston has a good coach, and once MLS stops adding teams and goes to a single table, I expect him to prove it. As for this year, it will be tough, but with a couple of good road wins, they should make the playoffs and at least perform respectably in post-season play.
part of the game, part of the league
first off, don’t be turned off by the name, yes I am an FC Dallas loyal fan, but I’m not on here to be a troll. I actually follow Houston news because I like to see a friendly rivalry between the Texas clubs, and because one gets tunnel-vision if they focus exclusively on events in their own house.
That said, I think Coach Kinnear is justified in these remarks. There is (by design) an ebb and flow to the MLS structure, and no club can avoid the valleys forever. If it wasn’t so, you’d have an EPL style “Big Four.” Actually, I am concerned that MLS doesn’t have tight enough controls in this regard, given the buying power that clubs like LA have.
The important point is – Houston’s time in the valley has been rather short compared to say, New England, and the club hasn’t made as many of the fundamental management errors that NE made in trying to preserve their roster.
Eventually your cornerstone players will fall off – either by trade, injury, or any of a number of other reasons. Sometimes you can see it coming, or shape the event to your benefit – often not. (for example – we’ll see how well my beloved FC Dallas deals with the departure of George John, and the flood of inquiries for Brek Shea.)
The true fans (or as Coach Kinnear says, the educated ones) will take the time to understand the career progression of the sport and the impact of the league rules. A great many armchair generals won’t. When they get vocal enough, they can have a detrimental effect on morale in the club and in the stands – and it is appropriate, IMHO, for the coach to speak out on that occasion.
Thanks
and ok fine, I’ll admit what I’ve admitted privately to others: I’m actually jealous of what you guys have done this year (and leading up to it) with your roster and team. FCD is becoming more ambitious in its acquisitions and play, though of course you may soon fall victim to the “Icarus” plague that has befallen us (and that we’re now trying to recover from, though of course the length of that recovery is a point of contention here)
indeed...
we’re all waiting anxiously to see if 2010 was our high water mark, or if the best is yet to come. Arguably, the roster has improved in the near term – especially in terms of goal scoring potential – but I wonder if we haven’t lost out on some real future stars by losing Eric Avila, Peri Marosevic, and Eric Alexander.
by DallasTilIDie on Sep 1, 2011 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions
No way
What pro coach tells his fans that they are dumb and stupid. He almost destroyed everything the dynamos worked for. How would protestors look like at the dynamo front office and practice field. Think about the media coverage the dynamo’s would have been the laughing stock of pro sports. Everything nearly went down the tubes because somebody could not keep his mouth shut. Chris u need to sit down and start looking for a new coach.
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